party back up to that grand coalition of the new deal in new frontier years. why on earth, wouldn't you? and that's "hardball" for now. thanks for being withus. olitsnat wital sharpton starts right now. thanks chris and thanks to you for tuning in. tonight's lead, they are losing it. and it's notust mitt romney. the evidence is growing that republicans have a much bigr prlem onir han than any one candidate, even the candidate for the white house. instead, we're seeing a rejection the entire world view. your on your own philosophy that says, if you're downnour luck, en yre of ck. 'll be talking about it throughout the show tonight. but we start with a new poll out of ohio that is sending shockwaves across the republican party. the "new york times" poll shows the president now has

teinlead in the buckeye state. ten points. ohioans are reacting against mitt romney's notorious cments about the 47%. the president drove that point home today. >> i don't believe we can get very far with leaders who write off half the nation as a bunch of victims who never take responsibility for their own lives. and i've got to tell you, as i travel around ohio and as i look out on this crowd, i don't see a lot of victims. i see hardworking ohioans. that's what i see. >> it's not just voters in ohio responding to that message. the presidt has a nine-point lead in florida. and a 12-point lead in nnsyia. loths no mystery about what happened. the secret tape of romney was a game changer. there's no runni away from

what hesaid. there's no spin cycle that can clean up his comment. 47% who believe they are entitled to health care, to food, to housing, to you nam it, it's an entitlement and the em t wot for this give it to president no matter what. >> a new poll finds 54% of all voters have an unfavorable view of romney's comments and 57% of independents feel the same way. that's a big reason why romney is in so much trouble in ohio and no republican has ever won the white house without winning the state. but when asked about how losing ohio would affect the electoral map,eypa response

said, i prefer to look at the map hol lift clee. he wants to look at the map holistically? how about realiscally? present ama i tingo tea >> values are hard work and personal responsibility, those values that we believe in don't just belong to workers or businesses or the rich or the poor, the 53% or the 47%, the 1% or the 99%. ose are american vaes. d ifou we and if you work with me, we'll win what county again. we'll win ohio again. we'll finish what we started. we'll remindhe world why the united states of america is the greatest nation eart od bssyou, everybody. god bless america. >> the first presidential debate

is exactly one week from tonight and right now both mitt romney andhe republican party are ingec b the american people. joining me now is bob shrum, democratic strategist, and chris al ball, co-host of "the cycle" on msnbc. bob, let ne start with you. is this as bad as it looks for romney or should i be looking at it more holistically? >> well, i think they should have said that ohio is a big hole in our planet. mney inot ohikind out there he comes across like a guy from another planet. in fact, there one bain man on youtube that's had 350,000 hits

in ohio. >> 350,000 hits just in the state of ohio? >> just in the state of ohio. d then he talks about getting tough on outsourcing to china but he's the one that outsourced to ina. and now he says, i care about the middle class butiveso specifics. it's not believable. look, the guy did a terrible mistake by saying the 47%. the man who said he doesn't care about 47% of the people is heading for not even getting 47 of the vote >>krystal, when you look at the polls, and not just the "new york times" poll, the president has a big lead. 10%, "new york times." "the washington post," 8% for the presint. nbc washingnjol, lead. fox news, 7% lead. the columbus dispatch, 5% lead. it's clear that the president is ahead in ohio and no republican has won witho winning the

state of ohio. >> if mi romney does not win ohio, he does not win this election. held mathematically, theoretically do it, but he would have to win every other swing state that is also leaning towards obama. if he doesn't win ohio, h doesn't win. and i think when that video came out aboutim talking about the 47% and casting them aside, i think that will be viewed as the pivotal moment in this election, the way that in 2008 mccain's crazed response to the financial crisis was really the pivotal moment. >> so you think this tape is t game changer? >> i do think it's the game changer. but i want to cut mitt romney a little bit of slk. hink t wlm a impossible task for the are republican nominee to please the party se and appeal to a large section of electorate in order to win. they have to move so far to the right that it was impossible run a sort of a instam cagnand, as you said, this

is a verdict not just on romney but on their entire go it alone philosophy. >> now, bob, picking up on far to the right, having to do that to win the primaries, when you look at the "new york times" poll of ohio, it is not just likeability. the economy 6 points up over romney. on health care, 14 points above romney of ohio ters. national securi, 12oiup. mere 16 points up. taxes, 10 point up. immigration, 5 points up. reign policy, 13 points up. so he is outpolling him by a significant number and inos s,ouble digits on substantive issues. >> look, this is not at this point just about who you want to sit down with for a casual evening. >> right. >> this is who you want sitting behind the desk in the oval office deciding whether to ucherize medicare, raise taxes

on the middle cls, pti social security. and krystal is right, romney had to move far to the right but having watched that tape, that's where is he comfortable. that's the best and easiest performance that i've seen him give. of course, his worst peormae, i ink le h fed out. i think the ryan pick helped him figure it out. we still have the debates, the romney campaign inexplicably is raising their expectations. it's not really inexplicable. the's a reason for it. they've got a lotf win supporters and some of the super pacs they've got to say just wait for those debates on october 3rd. >> krystal, wanted to cut mr. romney someslack. to be fair, the area that he is up is until budget deficit and he's winning in the polls 4%. it's the only area that he beats the president 4% in terms of the

deficit. but before you celebrate that -- >> i'm crating t >> -- the bloomberg poll finds that 50% of americans view him unfavorably. 50%. that's the worst september rating for a presidential challenger in three decades of the poll. the worst. d u'veot republicans saying, just wait for the debates. that's when people are going to tune in. >>very time he's had one of these moments -- and every time he's had one of these moments, not only has he fled to calin em, in fact, he's fallen further behind. i don't think mitt romney is up to the task of turning this thing around and i don't think there are enough undecided voters left. >> bob, he's still digging in, feeling he could win whi workclsoter ihi

this welfare claim. he's sticking to his guns on the claim that the president wants to roll back work requirements for welfare even though politofact take a look at what he says. >> any time there's anything that has been amiss, we correct or remove it. >> even theelfare act? >> absolutely. look, it has been shown time and agai tha thepren effort to take work requirement out of welfare is a calculated move, the same thing he did with regard to food stamps. >> i mean, he tried to use every buzz word that but a dog whistle. but do you think this debunked line of attack was romney's only strategy to get white working-class votes? >> well, what happened is they started off with a referendu

strategy. if you're unhappy, give me a try. they didt think that they were going to have to go out there and be verspecific. but th they to soin number of republican candidates have done over -- going all the way back to richard nixon. that is, use code words, code issues, and try to use trade as a lever. it obviously not working in oh whe his sport is going down. one thing that i have to say for them at this point is the low expectations going into the debate actually help them. because i think the press would kind of likeo give them another runr another chance to go around the trk. so if he does decently the de, he'll get that chance but i agree with krystal. he would have to win that debate. >> in a way that he's not capable of, frankly. >> is he too elitistha kle he doesn't have the goods.

this is not like he's a new candidate. he's been running for president for six years. he's had ample opportunity to connect with people, to introduce himself, and he's failed to do it for these six years. i don't see how these debate are going taker. ob shrum, krystal ball, thank you for your time tonight. >> thank you. > coming up, when republicans get desperate, they launch some dirty smears against the president. and newt gingrich just got do in the mud. >> he's not a real president. he doesn't do things that presents do. he doesn't worry about anything that the presidents do. he's a false president. he's a guy that doesn't do the prent's job. >> not a real president? i s ththa one. plus, mitt romney's crowd is pretty fir up for paul ryan, that is.

>> that's my guy,. paul ryan, sbt thisn't that som? wait a second. romney/ryan. romney/ryan. there you go. that's great. >> the cracks are starting to show in the gop bromance. puanouthat by 2012ese folks everybody would look like this. whatever happened to the so-called tea party revolution? this is "politicsnation" on msnbc. >> ladies and gentleme it's time for a new segment. this isal mey it's kind of a joke. watch this. >> my dad used to tell us that one year they ate nothing but potatoes. that was when they lived in idaho. even later in life, my dad e.uldn't look a poto ihe and that's kind of a joke. [ angry ] i just discovered untopped triscuit taste great.

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still ahead, uh-oh, looks like paul ryan is stealing mitt romneyhunder. estiroasre gwhen the thowo is on the top of the ticket. t do you think? [ engine revs ] i'll take it. [ male announcer ] it's chevy truck month. now during chevy truck month, get 0% apr financing for 60 months oap get the 2012 chevy silverado all-star edition with a total value of $8,000. hurry in before they're all gone!

to fight for the gop's very existence, no one can sta or

bear him. >> mitt romney is looking for a way back into the voter's hearts with a little help. they were reunit on the campaign trail in ohio yesterday for the first time in more than a month. the "new york times" sro ananlan come pain together a lot more in the weeks ahead. comes the sinking poll numbers and concerns that romney is not generating enough excitement on his own. and he needs ryan to fire up the crowd. but yesterday's reunion didn't quite go as planned. >> wow. that's quite a guy, isn't it? paul ryan. isn't that something? wait a second. eyn,romney/ryan,

romney/ryan. there we go. thank you. >> wow. you know things are bad when a nominee has to remind people he's the one on the top of the ticket. suddenly, this reunion is not feeling so good. jog me now is nia-malika henderson, a reporter for "t washington post," and ryan grim, reporter for "the huffington post." thanks for being here. >> great to be here, rev. nienro politics since i was a teenager, i've never seen anything that bad where the nominee had to stop the crowd and put his name out front. i mean, this is a little crazy, dot you think? >> and you've seen this before. you've seen people, you kn, sort of tripping up on romn's ,al him mitt romney. you've seen him on "60 minutes" rep minding that he's the one on

the ticket running for priden ckseatives on board. now you have conservatives saying, unleash ryan and have him talk more about policy and his plans for the future of the country. but it has been a bit of a sticky situation. the aides i've talked to around romney say they have a great relationship, they talk seral timea day. butnliyase a different set of advisers around him, a different set of speechwriters. i think everyone at this point is waiting to see if ryan, in fablt, gs rogue at some point. does he move to save his brand, ic of course, was this y eaty guy. does he look at his future prospects and see romney as being something of a drag on whatever his future prospects might be for national office four years from now. >> well, ryan gives us two dilemmas e, i thineei insquare and overreacting or is

it a problem for mr. ryan who has to protekt his brand for the future andf he decides his future is atrisk, what haenses if he does go roguwrong? >> well, in some sense ryan can help himself and romney at the same time. in other words, by deflecting the spotlight by him and saying, no, you're right, romney is the guy at the top of the ticket, romney is the guy you should be paying attention to, that also absolves him of some of the responsibility for what a lot of people are thinking is going to be a debacle on election day so ey can say, romney is our leer ary t f when the ticket stumbles, they say, romney was on the top of the ticket. it wasn't me. >> well, your paper, nia-malika, recently reported that they are

worried out how th campaign ot fron article in the washington post, there's been mounting concern among republicans that the pick has made ryan look more like romney, vague, utious, aim t preset talki points. >> that's right. i think there was a sense that ryan was this bold, brash young guy with lots of different ideas, whether they are medicare or medicaid and that would influence romney. you saw initially that they came out to saythis wou be a cagn about ideas and are really being able to draw a really stark contrast with obama. so far that hasn't happened. i think in a lot of ways ryan has been diminished and a lot of his supporters on the hill and conservatives among the conservative elite and money man, they very much want this to be about ryan's ideas, ryan's

bold ideas for the future. and i think in some ways they are preparing to make an argument if in fact romney stumbles and if in ft ryan is still left inimheat dote tk about their ideas. they are prepared to argue that that is in fact why romney lost. in fact, if he was more bold, he'd have a better chance of in >> well, ryan talking about romney's stumbling, it seems that he's having a real problem staying on message. for example, watch this when he deals with health care reform. watch this. >> i'm not getting rid of all of health care reform. >> he's not onneidea. i admit this. he h o thing that he d not do in his first four yearshat saihe w g tn ne f years, which is to raise taxes. >> now, in both of those cases, the campaign had to walk back the candidate's remarks. sew says things and two examples, taxes a health care, wherhis campaign had to

actually walk him back. >> right. i think goes back to a comment you said at the beginning where you said, i've never seen anything like that. and people have be saying that over and over for the last couple of weeks because he keeps doing thing that people have eye r seen anybody whoocs insulted half of the electorate that you're trying to win over and then he goes out and says, okay, parts of health care are pretty good d then he goes and says obama ht raised taxes and today, don't ex don't pekts a lot of because if he told the crowd specifically what deductions he was going to g af tatst could give him point for courage and specificity. but instead he just vaguely

said, you're not going to get a tax cut because i'm going to go after your deductions. it'sot courageous, it's just dumb. people are walking out of the rally wondering, boy, so i'm not going to get a tax cut and he's gointo go afte s deductions. well, which ones? charitable? mortgage interest deduction? don't know. he just keeps doing these things that are inexplicable and what that is going to allow republican operatives to do after the election is to say that it wasn't a problem with the ideology. it wasn't a problhate rug extreme of a campaign. it was a problem that he was a bad campaigner and that undermines attempts by others that pull the party in a more moderate direction. >> but, nia, i think also the problem with that is, what does that do to ryan? because'm tinf iowa republican party political director craig robinson, was just more direct when he was quoted by th"new york times" assaying, quote, if ryan wants to win for national office agai he'll probably have to

wash the stench of romney off of him. the stench of romney. >> yeah. i mean, that -- those are harsh words. and i think a lot of republicans, tea party folks particularly, feel that y. feel like mitt romney has watered down the paul ryan that they have come to love and respect and think of him as very much the standard bearer of the future of the republican party. i think evyone is on the lookout to see ryan go his own y sof wt we've seen sarah palin do that. i think that's what everybody is waiting see, if paul ryan is going to do that. i think he's very much a good pblul datd hinkha thy sah palin did that but we'll have to see. >> nia-malika henderson and ryan grim, thank you for your time tonight. >> thank you. still ahead,ffensive photos of the president posted

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have you checked us out oh on facebook? the "politicsnation" conversation is going all day long. today folks are stilluzzing about how ryan'seen outshining nn thinks, anybody romney

chose to be his running mate could outshine him. hugh says, it's almost ryan's turn to go rogue. and claudia says, if this crowd really knew what ryan had in an h nei. them, the wouldn't be ano know what you think of the romney/ryan relationship. head over to facebook and search "politicsnation" and "like" us to join the conversation that keeps going long after the show ends. [ man ]ut your is t omre nor your odd predilections! miracle whip is tangy and sweet, not odd. [ man ] it's evil! if you'd try it, you'd know. she speaketh the truth! [ crowd gasps ] [ woman ] revere? ♪ can i have some? ♪

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as republicans get more pessimistic abouthr ces innoveer, thee getng more and more desperate and reaching back into their bag of dirty tricks. just listen to what former republan candidate newt gingrich said about the present last night. >> heap to a partial part-time president. he really is like the substitute

referees in the sense that he's not a real president. he doesn't do any of the things that presidents do. he doesn't worry about anything of the things that presidents do. he's a false president. present' y thatoesn't do the e' fal president. he's not a real president. what's newt saying here? that president obama, our president, is somehow n legitimate? this is the latest in a long ne o smears and innuendo aimed at our president. is comes from within the rney campaign as well. >> look, let me tell you what the big problem with this president is, in my opinion. he is sotelyy d trentla and detached? did john really say that? the republican committee in

virginia has been ordered by the state gop to take down offensive photos of president obama photoshopped to make him look like a witch doctor and a cave man and this one showing the president begging the country, come on, baby, give me one more chance as w wentn a nigh m tho photographs are still on that republican committee's web page. joining me now is joe madin, nationally syndicated radio host of "morning's with madison" and anaarie rter t guardian. thanks for being here. >> thanks for having me, reverend. >> thank you. >> newt gingrich, joe, says president obama is a false president. what's behind that attack? >> well, i d't ow. ke ynosk s theiddle east, you know. ask the navy s.e.a.l.s who

helped to get the most wanted terrori teis itik tee stooges. john, newt, and donald trump. really, like the three stooges on steroids and this is, again, cold. when youear la, that's the uly tofodordhathey african-americans in the '60s, the '50s, and decades before. this is nothing more than just out right racism. t crn, as i'veaibefoit itotatasd. it's not lester maddox. it's james crow esquire in a pin-striped suit, the sophisticated cousin and, quite honestly, i don't think your children, my children, all of liorit.e grownndej r

you know the reason why? because they've gone to school with people of different nationalities, different colors. they've competed with people. they know men and women like michelle obama. they know men like barack oba. antheyalor i and they are the neadrethals. they are wondering, what cave did you come out of? >> ana marie, is this due t desperation that they are going ck t dty tricks and code words because they are losing and they've become desperate? >> i think so, al. i have to say, i want to be totally fair. people said some really nasty things about george bush wne was in ofce tharretty awful character turs of him. there's one significant thing, it did not have the racialress

nans of him and that's a huge thing. here's one thing that i think they have in common. the gsn't rywo. those slurs against george bush did not really work with the mass amount of people and i do not think that these things are working in part because we ha grown as a country. we elected barack obama. that doesn't mean thate've seen the end of racism but it optle younger than me my don't have that same resonance because they've seem people like michelle obama and barack obama all the time. this is more desperate than effective. >>oe, mitmnime sthha kind of go along with some of the more brazen stuff if you look at it a certain way. he talks about how the president doesn't have american values. ay rteon campaign trail.

listen to this. >> we've got to stop apologizing for scess at home and we've got toave a president to stop apologizing for success abroad. i d't tnk his comnts atesmen u knew nation. >> it's in some respects foreign to the american experience type of philosophy. >> i don't think he ubdss why our ecomy is the most successful in the world. i don't think he understands america. >> two act as though the presidt doesn't understand america, his values are unameric, he doesn't understand how to deal with americans, joe, isn't that sort of the same kind of code that he's different from us, whoever us is supposed to be? >> that's absolutely right. reng d r, s staff whe they understand the anglo-saxon values. who talks like that in this day and age? but the president, to everyone, is an example of an american

exceptionalism and his entire family. you know what? look, thiss mitt romney, once again, he has gone so far to the right to the extreme. he has played -- he's so deep in that base that just dislikes nt --li the president obama so much. now, notice something here. and i guarantee you, even if you played the clip longer, he never says what the president said. in fact, fact checkers have shown that over and over. oh, i forgot. they don't care about facts. >> that's my point. creatinghis energy and to some degree isffec wou lo a tac that october 2008, 16% of republicans said

president obama is a muslim. in july of 22, 3 of mu. thest it's doubled. more republicans, twice as many, believe the president is a muslim today than they did four years ago, even though i might underscore, there is aolutely nothing wrong with being a muslim. >> nothing. >> that's true, although ty feckse. the more you poll that question, the higher the percentage gets because for a lot of republicans that have this distaste for obama, the idea that he's a muslim explains a lot to them. the other thing that i noticed is that sometimes barack obama polls wlnugy thk he might be a muslim. but i really have to insist, i don't think it will work in the

d ldeatlookg candidates. >> these pictures that you've shown is something like out of mad magazine. that's exactly what -- you know, i used to read mad magazine when i'm a teenager. grow u and i wish the grownups would me back to e rlica party, honestly. >> joe, ana marie, thanks for your time tonight. still ahead, paul ryan has some advice for women on lfar you' wan s thi but, first, it's not just mitt romney that voters are rejecting right now. the tea party's in a downward spiral. stay wh us.

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up next, remember the tea party wave that was going to wash over erica, that was going to change washington? well, that wave is looking more and more like a washout. that's next. so, i'm happy. sales go up... i'm happy. itt to.'pp salewhat if she's not home? (together) she won't be happy. use ups! she can get a text alert, reroute...

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t beorgoen. h,emth th wpe wsang about the tea party before this year. it would never be forgotten. it would go down in history. people would take to the streets with teaagngfrheir brims. well, that prediction isn't really working out. americans are rejecting the tea party ideas, including their hatred of federal government. and this election could be the finalreaking point. president obama says that if he's fortunate enough to win a second term, his re-election will send a message to republicans that americans want his strategies, his sio the american people will speak on november 6th. the question is, will republicans listen? joining me now is former

pennsylvania governor ed rendell, now an nbc political analyst and thank you both f comingn the show tonight. >> thank you, rev. >> governor rendell, let me go to you first. do republicans have a lot more at stake than just mitt romney in this elecon? >> there no question. first ofll, if mt roey t inthayth paril he wasn't a true conservative, he wasn't one of us. you can't test our strength until one of us runs for president. but the fallacy of that argument is goingo be in the senate and in the house. in the senate, listen to the states where the rublicans are in dr lgen seats. missouri, indiana, north dakota, arizona, and nevada and maine. >> right. >> six states where tea party candidates won the primary and in indiana, if richard luger had

beaten in the primary, there would be no race in the fall. the democrats would have no chance. but because tea party candidates prevailed in that state, there's a chance that -- five of them would be pickups. clair mack kccaskill who everyo meas dead. >> based on current polling, i don't think one can say that it is now out of the question that we can wake up on the morning of november 7th to the prospect o speaker nancy pesi. that's and bill kristol to be saying. >> yes.

the tea party itself is unfavorable. there are fewer people who identify as memberof theea a y us n creating a congress that has record low approval rating. house members are in districts where the tea party is unfavorable. people who ran asea party candidates before are no longer running as tea party candidates. ey are dropping that from how they describ themselves. i think the e rul no'r realizing as a country after having this discussion that people want a more balanced approach. they want a collaboration and coopatioand they don't want either party to be beholden to a really fringe extremisparty. >>sn'thathent gh governor? it's not just the politics and the personalities, it seems to be a rejection for the ideas and the philosophy and policy of the tea party? >> yeah, there's no question.

with this election the pen dell lum has begun to swing back and people are realizing that government is not the enemy. it's not the solution to all of our problems but it's not the enemy and can be very important to help people who are vulnerable and have lost their jobs, people who he no way of poit create jobs and develop an infrastructure program that will bring millions of americans back to work. so, yeah, i think the pendelum has swung and it's a positive attitude towards govnment in a so, yeah, i think there is a seat change. >> now, margie, when you look at the fact that the establishment in the republican party, they don't seemo be putting their lnleies, either.s for these the national republican congressional committee has no airtime reserved for three of

its most vulnerable incumbents, a a sign that joan walsh and rotlar beyond saving. all members of the tea party. guess the ideas aren't working for their constituents. huh, mae? >> you see republins going back to missouri to help todd akin regardless of how mainstream out of it he is and joe walsh makes news with his remarks is going to a left hu oo dry. frankly, both parties ultimately look -- their job to get more candidates elected. i think it's important, too, to look at the broader context of

what this means for the presidential race, that this race, according to pew, is going to hinge on the size of government and while broadly speaking people do want smaller govementwhenskedn a n large ecs,thve was t saying, people are on the side of democrats and that's why you don't hear mitt romney and paul ryan offering a lot of specifics and that's why you have a lot of senate races hinging on candidates have that have taken tough vote >> i'm going to have to leave it ther edennd margie, thank you for your time this evening. >> thank you. we'll be right back.

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we've talked for months about the disastrous impact republican policies have on people w are already struggling. today paul ryan came face-to-face with onefse at a campaign event, a woman on public assistance asked ryan how he had helped people like her.

>> i make $316 every two weeks. i'm wondering what you're hap and not a hand out. i can't get off welfare with what i'm making. >> right z th. >> this is a woman in need a woman struli she ys s can't afford to get off welfare. just listen to the end of ryan's response to her question. >> the only thing that limits you is your god given talent and your own effort. we need to have that dynamic return. you do that by drawing the economy and giving people a hand up, not a hand out. teach a man howo fish, he can fe himself for a life. don't simply just feed fish. >> don't feed fish? what does that even mean? we've heard this from herman

ca. me? ou n rich, blame yourself. instead of offering solutions to help the poor, republicans want to gut the safety net. we have nearly two-thirds of ryan's budget cuts come from low-income programs, things like medicaid, food stamps andpell grants er py of cash to give tax cuts to the rich. romney's tax plan would raise taxes on low-income americans. it would raise taxes on the middle class. but it would giv aig t breao billionaires. mr. ryan, i'm all for teaching men to fish but you're giving the catch of the day to the wealthy and throwing everyone else overbroad. plat tud slogans, all of that is nice. but tellingan tighten up his belt when he's already been stripped down to his underwear, what could be